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Dwarkesh Podcast

Dwarkesh Podcast

Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? — Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

May 22, 2025 · 2h 24m

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New episode with my good friends Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken . Sholto focuses on scaling RL and Trenton researches mechanistic interpretability, both at Anthropic. We talk through what’s changed in the last year of AI research; the new RL regime and how far it can scale; how to trace a model’s thoughts; and how countries, workers, and students should prepare for AGI. See you next year for v3. Here’s last year’s episode , btw. Enjoy! Watch on YouTube ; listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify . ---------- SPONSORS * WorkOS ensures that AI companies like OpenAI and Anthropic don't have to spend engineering time building enterprise features like access controls or SSO. It’s not that they don't…