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The Michael Shermer Show

The Michael Shermer Show

The Emergent Mind: From Ant Colonies to Human Thought to Artificial Intelligence

Dec 6, 2025 · 1h 45m

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About this episode

In this episode of The Michael Shermer Show , Michael sits down with two giants of mind and machine science: Jay McClelland, one of the founders of modern neural networks, and Gaurav Suri, computational neuroscientist and director of the RAD Lab. Drawing from decades of research, they walk us through the revolution from behaviorism to cognitive psychology to modern neuroscience, and why simple interacting units can give rise to astonishingly complex behaviors. From why we perceive letters differently in context to how memory works, why consciousness remains baffling, and what AI is (and isn't) actually doing, this episode dives deep into the mechanics of all levels of thought, mind, and…